LOL
Well, for one it was metaphoric speech and you know that lol
Have you not considered web dev? still waiting for an answer 
Oh, I thought only the gripe was @ me, didn’t mean to ignore it.
So web-development, eh?
Well, I dont even know what that means really… I presume you arent talking about making web-sites or public data-bases…?
Exactly that, I am learning to use C# and utilise .NET to create dynamic, fast, flexible and smart and a lot of other neat words that can go here, websites along with SQL database connection, and also naturally the latest in Web technologies namely HTML5, JavaScript/jQuery and AJAX… to name a few…
If you think you feel comfortable with C#, consider getting into Web development, the jobs if you want to get them in future, pay quite well and are now in high demand [There are over 100 listings near where I live alone… all immediate hires]
[Ergo I mean Learning to utilise not learning to use C#, I have already studied it twice in great depth]
I love talking about all things IT… Including the history, ramifications, etc…
I guess some of the problems I face are:
$-motivation… I am not rich, I have less than average, but I am set for life… So all my programming is out of pure child-like wonder 
Also direction… Because I am unable to attend school, AND don’t know anyone with any IT experience, its hard to know “where to take it from here”… -The ‘industry’ seems rather boundless, like you could go off on some tangent, and never come back!
Should I try low-level languages?
Should I worry about advanced 3d and HLSL? VR?
What about multi-threading?
What about networking and multiplayer?
How useful is GitHub?
And with web-development, what about physical server space?
Who decides what domain I can use, and what it should cost?
What about various cyber attacks?
Liability and international law?
Only a few years back (or five?), I was finding out about vector2’s, and what made them different from pairs of floats… (oh, you can do different operations on different data-types, mind blown!)
I still have not ever used delegates or structs, I don’t know what doubles are for, I have only ever used ONE editor (besides notepad), I barely know an operating system from a framework, and I have no idea why people would develop their own compilers.
yet I have made everything from pac-man and solitaire, to sidescrollers and a flight-sim…
Its hard for me to pin-point the logical course from here, or even if I need one… 
consider getting into Web development, the jobs if you want to get them in future, pay quite well and are now in high demand [There are over 100 listings near where I live alone… all immediate hires]
Are you sure ? I mean, I have been a C# dev for more than 10 years, mainly doing desktop backoffice apps/ tools for big data and high performance computation (yeah c# can be tremendously fast when well used, with parallelization etc)
But web development has always repelled me because of all the many frameworks, the different devices, the different browsers interpreting “css as they wish”…
As far as I know, here in France, C# is unfortunately not as popular as java. And with all the problems our customers encounter with java, glassfish etc. all the different versions + the versions of the jar/app they use (elasticsearch, kibana, etc), nothing guarantees compatibility till the end, and you have the surprise when you launch the program if it runs or not.
I’m feeling java is the same as web development, a fragmented world, whereas with C# I feel comfortable, no problem with updates, etc… everything goes like a Lego 
Maybe I should reconsider web development.
For my defense about the “noone on the forum during the weekend”, I’m working every day in front of a computer, so the weekend I try to spend the maximum time with my family and hanging out with my pet
Me too, and this is also why this thread exists
I too suffer being surrounded by non-techies but you have a couple of options open to you and I will leave that for a blog post one day - as I am pretty sure the topic will surface one day soon [I need topics to post on there, so no use doing it twice] - but in short… make use of the process of discussing your idea out loud, whether with yourself or with someone that will just stay silent, the idea is to push the idea through your mind and allow your sub conscience to unravel the riddle for you… it is how I solve many critical thoughts… and complex problems… [In other words, explain complex new things that I have no idea how they work to piece the puzzle together for me while I play a game…], to have an idea is to have an epiphany… and this comes through thought, sometimes while doing something seemingly completely unrelated… [The example of Newton and the Apple, the Apple has nothing to do with Numbers… well you know what I mean]
Regarding ramifications, I like looking at how the technology industry is reshaping how life works and get irritated by those who block it needlessly…
Take UBER for instance…
From what I know from trusted sources, Taxi operators are sitting on gold mines, they charge exorbitantly to be a member of their fleet, and their reasons for this is nonsensical… UBER is what I would have loved to do and have thought of doing only when I had the idea, I was not a programmer type and Web Dev was a number of years outside my understanding - but I was a Web Designer at the time – and really, UBER I don’t know the specifics of how it works yet, not really done any research but my understanding is it means more jobs for both new [Noteworthy that this carries all sorts of risks] and existing drivers alike…
Long story short, I see things like UBER working out, if the existing drivers – not the firms – adopt and embrace it instead of seeing it as something evil… it means more rides and less hassle for them… In my city, I see cab drivers just sitting there all day long waiting for rides… why? When instead you could tap into customers that call you to them and you could end up doing two plus jobs in one trip…
Moving on…
Sometimes you just have to have a curiosity to get you through something… Curiosity did not kill the cat, it tried 9 times and failed each time and this was its proof that what it did wrong, was definitely the wrong thing to do and it moved on, ehem to a better place lol… my point is, life is about experiences and you might waste time learning something now, whether it remains relevant by the time you finish is subjective and often some skills learned are transferable into new experiences… [For instance, how programming languages store data and how to save that date to disk, the process is almost identical in every language out there if not the same, the principals are transferable meaning you can pick up a new language and remain relevant to your required work skills]
Moving on…
Tangents are healthy!
Well, I had this dilemma about 6-7 years ago, … I went with what I already knew… looked at what there was available… made some hard choices [Some were easy] and made a choice and stuck with it for several years… and now I self-taught myself how to make software, learned the entire core .NET foundation and continue to enhance my skills in other areas… how? BOOKS!
I don’t want to berate on about my interests in programming and why I made specific choices here, I will leave that for my blog and memoir… but find what you like, I assume you have some interest in C# and the .NET platform otherwise you would not really be here if you did not find it worth learning – and honestly the entire industry is moving towards higher level languages for a multitude of reasons – and regarding where to go from here… and school [Answered this above with BOOKS] and [Answering a question in the video] experience, oftentimes they say 10-300 years’ experience, that is simply a tactic to weed out candidates that may simply be wasting their time as in people with zero experience at all who think they can just learn the skills on the job… sometimes they genuinely do want you to have a past job but still try… regarding the many listed things, they usually have an essential list of requirements, say C#, .NET, SQL, HTML5, JavaScript/jQuery etc. and then the other stuff which are non-essential and the reason for that is because they likely have books on those subjects that take a few days to read up on…
The fix for Education [Many companies do not hire graduates, there are many instances where someone dropped out of University life to take up a job somewhere… the Job was more valuable than the degree… for both Money and Experience reasons… but keep in mind, these are people who studied certain things in-depth and grasped the skills in hand] they look for people who have something to show and can prove what they made… [This applies to graduates too however] let us say you made a social platform that got ‘some’ fame but business wise did not do that well, however ‘you’ made it without any outside help, this is a skill that a company looking to do something similar may want, and thus you already have the experience [Suggest you do at least 2-3 projects of such degree to prove you have the metal] and viola, Experience can and often does trump past employment history… sometimes they need a mouldable fresh person instead of a corporate background person who might bring old habits from questionable business practices at previous employment… like not following some regulation or non-communicative or not adaptable to new methods…
Moving on…
Don’t bother unless you have a purpose…
Get something going first, most products are designed and produced and then later refined… this is true of all and any industry, whether it is a toilet bowl, or a simple 2D game that later becomes full blown 3D later on… regarding VR, etc. again, make something and if your budget allows it or your idea requires it, [Hold up as soon there will be many options for cheap VR headsets in 2017] then go into it, otherwise you have a very expensive shelf ornament that you regret buying…
Basically, take a step at a time…
This is a specialised thing, and .NET provides a very easy manner to deal with it, but again, get something working, and wait until you really need it or your project would benefit from it, however work it into your design early on… however, there are still things such as Dead Locks to be aware of… hopefully within the next few years Microsoft or someone finds a way to utilise n-CPU cores dynamically and you can just code without needing to consider it… now that would be cool! I mean 4-8 core/thread CPU’s have been around for a decade now if not more… and there are many 8+ core/thread CPU’s now, I mean look at Mobile Phones now… they have 8 already! So, removing this burden from programmers with increasing support for multi-core platforms, would make sense…
Moving on…
Again, take steps and consider it as and when the requirement arises… for any form of Multiplayer I strongly advise learning some web programming such as ASP.NET and Database usage… XML is Key here… the web side of the skill would enable you to have a web interface where stats can be viewed in real time!
Not required or essential for individuals, but I do recommend a backup utility that backs up regularly for you, if you can pay for a private repository there then go for it if you do not mind having your code on an outside system…
There are many options out there, cheap shared web space, even AZURE offers free usage that can get you started [Note however they do now have an email service where you can have a custom email address], cheap options offer everything including an email and if you pay for a year they even throw in some form of free domain name… There are special topics regarding managing a domain name, I might consider doing a piece or a few on the topic on my new blog when I get it up… a week or two away…
You decide what domain you want - however whether it is already taken or available is subjective lol - and you can find the prices on any Domain Registrar service… [note taxes are usually added to the list price unless they are marked as inclusive of Taxes, these are business/trade services and as such Tax is handled differently from consumer products]
You just need to consider how big you are and if you are on a shared service usually there is a degree of security as a blanket system… or they offer it as a paid upgrade… and depending on if you developed the service or used a free package such as WordPress……. Your security issues are minor if nobody knows you yet, however if using such packages; keep them updated!
You only need to worry about this once you are trading usually… some basic research into your local laws or general laws surrounding whatever you are doing or consult a legal advisor for help… usually the first session is free for say 20-30 minutes to see if they can actually help you… but do not waste their time with silly questions, have something in mind and then go asking… some local governments have free legal advice for businesses… check with your local government authority…
Programming is Dynamic, and C# ever so more! <3
Compilers is for special use cases… Again, find something you want to do, identify what it may require and research accordingly, even ask here for direction, keep in mind some people have specific platforms they prefer and may be biased… always take anything you read online with a grain of Tequila…
For me I am sticking to the Windows 10 UWP platform to begin with and once I have something successful - and it generates its own revenue - I can then consider hiring in the help to port it to other platforms… You make these choices, find them! Do not stretch yourself too thin, make something, then iterate on it…
Did you follow a tutorial? Did you change some features? Did you add something new to the mix? If you simply made soup per a recipe… what use is that as a USP… I would add Chili and sell that as something new and fresh, be Creative! This is the creative industry after all!)
Make a blog and showcase your work, even if you lose the original projects, you have some record to show evidence… a blog can be a powerful employment tool, [Pro-Tip: many people got jobs because of their blogs!]
Again, what do you want to do? Make a game? An app? A server? Find something and start digging instead of being idle about it… I have hit myself with this slap too and believe me, it works!
This is probably answered above…
Hey there @Alkher
C# and ASP.NET are very straight forward, you have a great foundation that carries immense flexibility, start simple and add to it… read the soup analogy above…
Don’t take this the wrong way but:
Are you a follower or a trend setter? Are you a white sheep or a black sheep?
I have never followed the mould, and I like where I am heading…
Just because people talk about iPhones, does not mean they use one…
Phew… that took an hour…
7 pages in Word… and over 2000 words!
Very thorough response there, MrValentine! Mine will be a bit more rambly perhaps.
I had the same feeling about low-level languages… I feel like I have been able to do ANYTHING with c#… Though I guess if I wanted to mess with other programs “in ram” values, I would go c++… Though I think all I have ever used or heard of that required this, was “hacky” stuff, like RPG trainers and the like…
People who use c++ for the frame-rate, always have me a bit sceptical, because computer speed seems to grow faster than the rate at which we write code anyway…
…Like by the time you are done coding in c++, hardware will have improved to enable c# to catch up… It seems that way, looking back…
Like you would need a team of productive individuals on a deadline to really reap any gains, and then still that’s more of a market thing, than an IT thing… And market things can duck off, for all I care …
For now at least, I am totally satisfied controlling and relying my OWN variables and values…
As for how I do things, tutorials and learning, etc:
I have one book on C# which I think only helped me understand some things retrospectively…
Like I’ll read something new, it will have no relevance to my life, and it wont help me…
But then I’ll go back and read something I’m familiar with, and just flat out agree with the book… Not ideal
Tutorials were good for me to start with… Learning all the terms and “formatting” of for-loops and all that… That IS just something one has to learn… And THEN its becomes apparent why it is like it is…
But I would always expand on them, add buttons, and try crazy schemes…
here is what I feel like I have learned about programming:
There really is no recipe to follow… Unless you copy paste, but then you might as well just download a program, and spend your time camping in the woods…
WE make the rules… Programming is not something we adhere to, it is just a “common ground” communication for the machine to understand my intentions…
Going into programming, I though it would be more “learning”, when really it turns out to be more “expression”…
-Which really surprised me coming from a non-IT background, I had always been spoon-fed the “men in white lab-coats” narrative…
I’m a former musician, and I consider programming the MOST “creative” activity I have done! The freedom is immense, and it simultaneously CONTAINS music and the arts as mere content… Programming just OWNS everything
That’s also what makes it hard to pick a project, I think… I have this feeling like anything is possible, but nothing is REQUIRED…
The earth is already spinning, and the birds are chirping. Really, what more could we ask for?
What is the brain to DO with something like that?
So at this point, my current project was intended as a back-drop for trans-national cooperation and inter-human communication, but has also thrown off a few lessons about dynamic vertex geometry and such…
I guess there is a very human component in all of this. Finding meaning in something that is not assigned meaning by the outside world… Doing something because it tickles the mind…
Because of the way this quote thing works my responses are in reverse order… as I am tackling them as I read your post
Thanks, Although bear in mind when I type … It usually means I had a lot more to say or forgot something important or useful to say…
Regarding the in-between stuff, yeah, Coding is an exercise in Application [Pun intended I think] of skills to create applications that function well
Douglas Adams much? 
THHGTTG!
Actually you can fully compile C# now instead of using JIT compilation, check up .NET Native… and see below regarding C/C++…
You can drop into C/C++ within C# by the way… P/Invoke I believe and possibly another thing… I am forgetting it right now… but P/Invoke should be a good starting point…
My first book on C# was an illustrated one which used diagrams to show relationships in the code, very helpful - well for me anyway - and then a few months later I dug deeper into professional C#… I picked a base level of C# 2012 and .NET 4.5 which I think is the absolute base you should be learning to utilise .NET in a functional manner…
Recently I bought a lot of useful books including one with several hundred examples of various C# algorithms! the book is massive!
I will showcase these books on my blog soon as I may be able to run a weekly post on the subject as I have enough books to last an entire year for such a topic [1 day a week posts]
Apologies, I may mention my blog a lot, it helps keep me in focus on my next goals, if I do it too much, just umm ignore it lol or give me a polite nudge
lol, the forum ghost is warning me that I care too much about this thread… I am hogging the topic, it seems.
But we are having a real conversation at this virtual table, so I will continue:
Yeah, P/invoke is another one of those things I never touched… So its has to do with “invoking the power of the low-level gods through the worship of high level ones” ?
Its fine that you mention your blog, only helpful! (if you include a link that is )
Speaking of P/invoke, and things I never used, what about structs?
Are they significant in some way I have not realized? Why do I need them? My book describes them in a way that makes them sound like classes (or objects).
(they contain a collection of variables, and can be passed around)
And what about those… Cant remember what they are called… Enums, I think…
Where you have a list of all the dog-breeds, or the names of colors or something…
Is that just for readability or user-friendliness, or can they actually be used to perform magic?
I mean, what operations can you perform just from naming something?
Seems so arbitrary from my current vantage point…
Like do I really care what a dog is called if I know its heart-rate, weight, and metabolism?
(and btw, just to be clear, in my earlier post, when I used the soft b-word, I meant no offense, it was just friendly banter)
Dang it, this post is upside down now lel 
You can see now why I read two books from two different brands/authors with two different methods, and one continued on into the .NET Framework… this allowed me more than a single point of reference, and a wider understanding of the relationships between things… [This was an intentional forethought on my part] you don’t need to remember everything, however I simply reference everything… Even as I was reading things the first time, I simply read word for word, and built a connection the second time around about 6 months apart, I was then able to create a mental understanding of things that seamed alien to me the first time around… even things I end up not using… yet…
I strongly suggest getting another book on C# and a good book on .NET, I can suggest a few if it helps, but they are not cheap… nor overly expensive… I even have one for MonoGame two in fact… and a couple for SlimDX I think… ASP.NET is its own domain of fortitude, so keep that in mind…
One last note here, Only after I studied C# twice, did I even consider looking up things on MSDN, and frankly I still only go to it to pull up links for others, but it does sometimes help to instil the information when I have to glance over it to ensure it fits the bill and may possibly help the user with their issue… sometimes you learn a little bit more than what was in a book, even the books suggest reading the MSDN content as it often has more examples and a complete list of related information…
I know but when someone does something once, the Domino Effect takes hold… I hate being PC too but you have to be professional in some places, and the culture of this place is a healthy one compared to some forums I have visited… and I would much like to keep this place Peachy
This should shed some more light on the matter, Enumeration types - C# reference - C# | Microsoft Learn
This should answer this question pretty succinctly: Structure types - C# reference - C# | Microsoft Learn
Thanks,
Not developed it yet, still studying ASP.NET, took a 30 day break - and feel like I stopped yesterday, which is a good thing - so still got some way to go, presently sitting at: 29.29% through 734 pages, Should get it done by Mid December and hopefully get the basic shell of the blog up before XMAS… [519 Pages Remaining]
Pretty much so… 
Precisely why I prefer Custom Tools where possible… I may not immediately implement funky features, but at least it will do the job and I know how to enhance or add features without having to search massive documentation that I did not write Speaking of which always remember to use /// before all your code blocks… Summaries are important! [Allows you to create Automated Documentation files]
EDIT
@Tom Sorry about those two DX posts, Was not a good day for me and I should not have posted them, Thanks for reminding me of them, I had completely forgotten about it… Marked for deletion…
I get that. And I dont want to disturb that… I just want to state for the record, that its very frustrating to feel limited in this way… Not that its unique to this forum at all…
I actually thought about taking this up with the admins, but its beyond their control I think.
But people sometimes run things like forums and social-media, as if a real alternative exists in real life… There are in fact NO places where I spend time, where true human discussion is “acceptable”…
Its not like it makes sense to go join some random group of people, just to have “political” discussions with them… That’s artificial, and that’s where “media bubbles” come from… Which polarize our nations…
YOU guys are my peers in this modern world… I don’t care what pilots or school teachers have to say… I care about what monogame forum users are experiencing…
But this is a general problem in society… Over the last 20 years, society has been reduced to “forum users” who are only allowed to be “on topic”, or they can “go somewhere else”…
When that is in fact not how life has been in my (or our) society historically…
In fact, used to be democracy (and the whole of society) DEPENDED on open discussion…
In the class-rooms, around the water-cooler, or among BBS buddies…
The world has become more and more alienating, the more connected we are…
I get that we all want professional results, rather than opinions… In my day, people could do BOTH.
This has just been my thoughts in the general discussion thread. I don’t intend to revolt, and I mean no offense to anyone…
Good day to all.
Also, thanks for your great response to all the other stuff… Very professional 
1 Like
I find this channel in BF3
Not turning this into a political drama, but I know what you mean, however, we have to utilise a blanket approach, as anyone can be using these forums and we know what happens when someone is easily offended [Takes a lot to offend me though lol]
On-Topic wise, yeah I have a love hate relationship with that idea…
In Real life, I am used to people swearing so foul words don’t shock me, but I can be sensitive to keeping things on level in such places as here as the last forum I was on was chuck full of kids for some bizarre reason… don’t take it to heart though, it’s not like I can edit out bits of your post, I have to tell you, otherwise it will get flagged by someone and cause you issues further down the line… I got flagged twice today, hence the message earlier to Tom…
If we want to trash talk, we could always utilise a service elsewhere lol, but PM’s can get out of hand too… Facebook is your friend… do you play BF3 by any chance?
Facebook is my enemy 
I dislike that stuff. Many of the people I know are monitored, and cant express themselves for fear of RL consequences… At least on this forum, people have interesting things to say… Things that have a direct, practical impact on my thinking, and my projects…
And unfortunately, no I don’t play battlefield… I was in the real army, where I felt I had a fighting chance, but in FPS games, I am pure fodder
For some years now, I have been more interested in games, than “playing” games…
I know most people don’t think that goes hand in hand, and that I sound like a grandpa, but I HAVE been ‘gaming’ since the NES/Amiga 500 days… Before we called it “gaming”… Member those days?
I dont want to trash talk… I just want to talk…
also what did u doo 2 upset our admin-lords?
Posted a silly worded comment on a thread when I was having an off day… should never do that…
This forum needs more emoticons… I cannot express myself well without sounding a bit stiff lol
I don’t consider myself a pro player in anyway, I prefer making games, however, I do need to blow off some steam [Or let my sub conscience play ball] sometimes… and until I make my own games to burn time with, I am stuck with choices for now… BF3 is dated and still hugely buggy… but I bought it because BF2142 is less easy to play these days and the better more enjoyable BF Vietnam is no more…
I want to chronicle my Game Development process so I am having to learn ASP.NET first to create my blog, then hit MonoGame, then hit Blender 3D and then create my own physics engine to improve the game that I make in-between… thinking to release it first as a basic set of functionality, say a sort of Early Access/Beta-A type thing and then build in the realistic physics…
On top of all this I am doing many other things… such as Novel Writing…
You sound like a busy dude! I hope you set aside time to breathe (!)
Oh by the way, heres a joke I found in youtubes comments once. If you have one, I would appreciate a trade:
while (!asleep)
{
sheep++;
}Hmm…
using System;
namespace SleepApp
{
class Program
{
private static bool Asleep;
public static int Sheep { get; set; }
static void Main(string[] args)
{
while (!Asleep)
{
if (Sheep < 100)
{
Sheep++;
Console.WriteLine(Sheep);
Console.ReadKey();
}
else
{
Asleep = true;
Console.WriteLine("You are now asleep");
Console.WriteLine("Good Night!");
Console.ReadKey();
}
}
}
}
}
Ironically you got me writing that as soon as I woke up lol, not using ANY good practice programming… but it works time for 
See if you can spot the joke in the code
How about we turn that into a code challenge?
I was trying to say java is teached at university, and in the real world of work, in this country there is not a as high demand on C# as it seems to be where you are. Often, students only know C++ by name, they don’t know what a pointer is, just saying the name and they panic.
I’m leading to C# the students I have on work experience in my company and they really enjoy I’m playing my part in C# evangelization but I’m not the Education minister…
Maybe the thrend will change as there is now Visual Code, which supports a lots of languages, there is no need anymore to install a Visual Studio with half its possibilities offered in a free version to do C# and that only…
I’m also pleased with the direction Microsoft seems to take by opening its “padlock” on its tools: Visual Code, SQL server on linux etc.
I’ll have a closer look at ASP jobs offers here.
Sorry for my late answer, you two are chatterbox
1 Like